Addressing the Shadow Pandemic in India
Speakers:
Moderator: Mandy Sanghera: Philanthropist and Global Campaigner on Gender Based Violence
Leslee Udwin: Founder and Executive Chair at Think Equal, Filmmaker of Indian’s Daughter, Actress, Human Rights Activist in UK
Phyllis Chesler: Founder at The Phyllis Chesler Organization, Psychotherapist, Professor Emerita of Psychology and Author of 20 Books including A Family Conspiracy: Honor Killing and Requiem for a Female Serial Killer
Meena Kandasamy: Indian Poet, Fiction Writer, Activist from Chennai
Priya Hingorani: Senior Advocate Supreme Court of India
Jerome Elam: President and CEO of Trafficking in America Task Force
Mugisho Theophile: DRC /PHD in Gender Studies
Mandy Sanghera:
To speak on this, I have been unfriended and boycotted. Asked why I would speak out about the lower caste in India. Believe everyone is equal
Q: Intros?
Leslee Udwin:
War for women
Awareness in film not enough, need action concrete steps
Bihar Film
Look in rapists eyes, understand it is our fault, societies’ fault, we did that they did
Priya Hingorani:
Work in family, constitutional law. Work with NGO’s-justice for women and children especially women of color.
Phyllis Chesler:
Author of 20 books
Once captive in Kabul Afganistan
Help with 4 Affidavits-seek asylum from honor killings in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Europe. Those fleeing cast related killings.
Meena Kandasamy:
Activist
Violence deep rooted in caste system
Mandy Sanghera:
Over 250 million people in caste base violence: India, Europe, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, past China
Can’t unsee what we have seen
Q: Violence against women changed?
Priya Hingorani
India different. Violence in family: women and children while in lock down: more help lines open: more children call for help
Religion, caste, culture difference
Lack of legal rights and education for women
New amendments, penal change, issue implementation
Criminal justice needs a new overhaul
Need to put mind together to speak about…. violence
Leslee Udwin:
It’s not India Centric
Not about India but entire world
Made film about Jyoti Singh… when researching for the film: statistics about UK: 1 in 3 girls-sexual violence, ages 13-18. In US 17.7 million women had been raped, Denmark 1 in 5 prostitution of rape led to conviction
They haven’t changed in India or anywhere else
Sit with rapists- rapist rape 5 year old Dalit girl, not feel remorse or regret, the law is very limited, the law only punitively, when crime committed, crime quantum of punishment- first time rape hanging for Jyoti
She asked rapists now the hanging is a deterrent.
Rapists told her: Now they will kill the girls after they rape them so they don’t kill us
We are urinating against the wind (not use British term)
Culture trumps law
Priya Hingorani:
Dowry illegal but covered by gifts
Not have as much burning brides as past, last two decades
Rape now a bigger issue
Leslee Udwin:
This isn’t about Gender
What are we reducing it to, My country rapes less than your country?
Sweden rape more country than India?
Put hands on in Sweden then it’s rape
Mandy Sanghera :
Higher rates in Sweden but more power to report it
Mugisho Theophile:
Africa in Caste Systems: Northern, Southern, Western, Central Parts
All parts different casts, different social structure
Higherarchy- pyramid of classification
Look for example in traditional Africa: hereditary, born in this until they die, can’t move from their category, very few places move. King could choose in the past to move them.
Now in traditional Africa, castes may suffer acute discrimination and abuse
Caste never consider women but men
Women never been considered women but objects…very serious when look at abuse
Non-caste people more power and privilege
People not in caste: superior and independent
Caste people: inferior and powerless, stereotypes
Mandy Sanghera:
Want change, need men
Mungisho: Advocating with young men
Men need to be seen as impact not always the problem
Q: Honor Killing and Violence?
Phyllis Chesler:
Women constitute caste of our own
Couldn’t tell a rapist what caste come from before being gang raped…..
1970’s exposed rape:1st person (Phillis) ever to speak at a speak out
Say to “Take weapons away from effector: got in trouble” (Phyllis)
Biological variables in rape culture, could be.
Rape is global. Not specific to India. In the US, prostitutes being paid to be raped, raped for money, heavily rationalized, young women of color, black women, from families-sexual, domestic violence, poverty:homelessness, on the street-pimps waiting for them…. life of hell, not able to escape
Age of 13, 12, 11 not later than 15. Become drug addict and alcohol: robbed, beaten, sexual abuse….
Dissociate with drugs and spirits
Rape by family members of girls and sometimes boys.. by 99% men
Over 50 year period, some laws change, 20 years went by when rape kits not tested. Rape is seen lesser crime… done to women, women don’t report it. When women report it, not go through with trial, or not allowed if rape kit not tested. Women not want to deal with nasty questions: did you have abortions before? How many men you’ve had sex with? Re-traumatized with questions. Women on the jury especially not want to convict bright young male for one little crime happen to woman. In US.
Women not killed because of rape… not shame culture
She was prey and then became predator. Some see revenge. Serial killer just wrote about it. Come from bottom to the top. Little girls don’t kill their fathers that rape them since 3 years old. Prostitutes don’t kill men.
Phylis-Family relative get grey hair from overload of domestic violence. Over 700 cases no help.
Do we have the courage to stand with woman not so perfect? Tainted in many ways. To demand justice for prostitutes, illiterate…. Certainly, certainly the time is now.
Mandy Sanghera:
End rape in Conflict: Jyoti
Famous people talk about it and then it’s gone again
Q: How to help survivors?
Meena Kandasamy:
Leslie talks about education. Every culture conditioned by local factors…. step away from it.
Support women but also support woman goes with challenging systems. Talk about sexual violence.
Should people be brought to safety? Yes. Why military rape? In Kashmir, India armies in Sri Lanka in 1980s, rapes going on.
When we challenge rape….during lock down itself….Dalit women and children…look at the systems… dismantle the systems. Organize and hold systems accountable.
Army meant to protect people.
In India, the first immediate reaction, been survivor of domestic violence, can’t tell mom that dad hit me. Mom would say what did you do. It’s ok in culture. Violence equal to corrective and discipline. He is doing it to make you a better person. You did something completely wrong… that’s why you got hit.
In India context, go back to women conceptualized…seductress….in India text. Won’t spend time with daughter, mother alone because thought of as temptress. Thought of as an object. Always think the woman will lead you astray.
[Women accused] Not outside at 9 pm? Tight Dress? How promote equality? Change mind sets?
You are in power to change, how to involve others.
Priya Hingorani:
All starts at home. The mothers and mother in law taught at all aspects. When taught at home, upbringing in home, bring you to who you are outside the house.
We look at the issues of upbringing of the boy. The boy given food and girls get food later in the night.
Issues need to change. Awareness at home level and the other aspect in schools. Education of women. What kind of education you get in schools? Of course the mindset not only men but woman too. India, very, very large country. Uphill task to change the mindset and the customs prevalent in families.
Mandy Sanghera:
Good work being done. Applaud you.
Priya Hingorani:
Judicial system:…conviction rate null, pressure in courts, cases cut short…
Ruling class, politics can bring change.
No political will to change administration police, judicial system, investigations…. in past.
Q: Change mind Sets?
Leslee Udwin:
Helped 77,000 kids with our organization…. add 525,000 in one go and more coming…..
We have to prevent. We are going to improve the systems. Expect different result over one country or not….
Deal with fall out after the fact. Put plaster on the wounds. Where are we preventing? Where to make the difference?
Families biggest problem. Discrimination.
Biggest missing subject….bottom line.. Prevent
Ask education ministers. Talk with government (example of Belize).
Think Equal: Teach with books, inclusion, global citizenship. Treat children with empathy: won’t hurt someone if you have empathy. If you don’t develop empathy pathways that you will hurt someone.
Not Judicial systems. How will you get into the families? Violence, father hit mother, see it.
Prevent, change mind set.
How can you, you have duty of care? How can you say learn literacy?…. but optional to learn relationships and treating others?
What is early years about? Development of brain, intervene. Use concrete tools: emotional literacy with Yale… Not black or white. The reality is with one brown crayon, teach we are all brown just different shades. Not racial discrimination
Mandy Sanghera:
Both cut, we would all bleed the same color. People conditioned.
Phyllis Chesler:
Friend in Calcutta, works with disabled girls, Michelle Harrison wrote to Phyllis: Silence of the fathers. Boys need to hear that from father you are a man. Hitting or raping a woman is a barbarian not a man.
Hearing Leslie speak, truth commission… conscious raising of rape.
Get death sentence for rape. That hasn’t happened.
In addition to radical early year, kind of commission in Bosnia, rape trauma system and women brought as witnesses couldn’t be relocated. Rape in Rwanda- no funds for it. Very large and continuous. We have the will and desire.
Implement laws, education, and enormous conscious raising.
Solution: such profound education in the tribal lands. Where the woman are to braided in fertility and virginity. [Woman does something wrong per fertility and virginity: then she] gets to die in family…get to kill her. Loose business and livelihood.
Honor killing: If a girl marry own choice, refuse marriage contracted, wants higher education, wants to marry dishonored castes: she gets to die. To turn it around….Extraordinary undertaking.
Prevention is crucial.
Leslee Udwin:
Every single child needs positive outcomes in life.
Gorum: 29 years old: journalist: practice for film: at 18 raped in South Africa.
Terrified when in front of rapists….Left [some] details out of film….Men now hung.
Priya Hingorani:
Main guy will never
Leslee Udwin:
Juvenile maximum of three years. Muted out.
Ask Director General: practice [interviewing] on rapists [before filming real thing], very terrified, going to physical assault them. What happens if all ghosts rise up in me. In my day, you don’t report. I told nobody for 20 years, feel ashamed didn’t report. Ghosts fly up in me and strangle one of them, get so angry.
Given 4 rapists. 5 years Gorum, another 10 for raping a 5 year old girl: robot just as all of them. How to get angry with robots, programmed. I really need your help, Gorum. I didn’t feel angry. They didn’t feel resentful for 31 hours. So obvious programmed. Please help me to understand….
Jerome Elam:
Fight for victim of sexual violence. 5 to 12, victim of trafficking.
Look at lack of remorse or conceptionalization.
We can all work together to combat and fight.
We are educated in schools. Healthy relationships in schools. Help educate young boys to respect woman. Predominately educate children….. will speak out about their own victimization.
I agree global problem. Heart broken over India, more involved in Issues, post in sexual violence in India, attacked by Indian men, said that it matters because everyone matter. I’ve lost too many friends to sexual violence. Not get the justice they served.
Q: Call for action?
Priya Hingorani:
Look not only at India but education not only at home but schools.
Educating woman to report. Report cases, get over fact of stigma, or face problem at trial.
System: when crime takes places, very strong legal system, across the world.
While we are talking about a lot of issues around the world, not lose optimism or hope, positive attitude in life. We can help others: educated class. Positivity to lead from the front.
Leslee Udwin:
Gandhi Gee: Yu want real peace with the world, you will have to start with the children
Education is the most powerful weapon we have to change the world. What kind of education was he talking about? Not the failed education model. Not the industrialized model…. what kind of education. This is the kind of education. No child is born hating another human being, color of skin, religion… or would have said gender. A child has to be taught to hate then a child can learn to love.
Teach to love…evidence and science base.
Leslie interview the rapist who raped a 5 year old: When go from thought to action? Look at little fragile creature.
He said, she was a beggar girl. Her life had no value.
Leslie: She was a girl, bad luck, lower caste, dalit. How does God’s name does India get away with Caste System? Get rid of the notion. It’s obscene and disgusting.
Phillis Chesler:
Agree with Priya and Leslie suggestions. Do all of it. We were properly engaged we would pull it off.
Kirthi from Gender Security Project Gender Security Project: How to inspire woman to report with cases like Jyoti?
Priya Hingorani:
This case should not deter woman. So many other cases, sexual harassment. Got perpetrator punished. We have internal committees. One case here and there should not dishearten you.
Q: Indian government role? Top down? Embedded in as big as India.
Speaker???
Not just India, problem with those in power don’t want to give up the power. Take out of politics, in the business world, only 9 % people on boards are women. There have been evaluations and measurements-when companies led by women, businesses perform better. Get more profit. Despite that only 9% people on boards are women. Change not come from men, Modi. Doesn’t do anything about it, because don’t want to do anything about it. The wealthy don’t want to be disturbed.
Q: Did you find a pattern in your book? Common thread?
Phyllis Chesler:
Serial killer….she was killing strangers half of whom were johns. severally abused woman usually go down fast. She went down really fast. Aileen Wuornos. Battered woman kill in self defense, life sentences.
Comments:
Martha Shelley:
Middle East, soldiers got to rape, got to destroy the moral the opposing nation. Drag home female slaves, in order to be their wives, concubines. Don’t think change… basic principle still the same.
Susan Stasi:
Agreeing to everyone. This is amazing. Working with a team, in Uganda, an area that is a severe problem during pandemic. Increase rape and incest. Women now pregnant hiding and ashamed. Trying to work with pregnant girls.
Q: Closing Statement?
Jerome Elam:
I had a female survivor teach masculinity. We need on global scale. Begin to see sexual violence eradicated….A case where the upper caste demand lower caste for trafficking/pornography, only take one family to come forward.
Amplify victims voices….
Mugisho Theophile:
People work together…. case of India. Cases really, really alarming. Government to involve parents and educators. Scale down abuse in India.
Farah Shahabuddin:
Powerful to build empathy…. challenges to have communities work together…
Mandy Sanghera:
Teach boys about respect. stand up for mothers, sister right.
Educate… move mountains together
Thank you to everyone. Conversations could go on together.
PC: Zoom Call Mandy Sanghere Linked In Page and Shame: Eventbrite Event Page